User talk:Jimregan

Hello Jimregan, welcome to the multilingual Wikisource! Thanks for your interest in the project; we hope you'll enjoy the community and your work here.

This wiki is the original Wikisource wiki, originally hosting works in many languages. The larger collections have been spawned into separate projects, leaving this wiki to serve as a central collaboration point, and as an environment where works without a language subdomain can be started. Refer to our languages list to see which languages still reside on this wiki. You can find a list of the separate language projects on the main page or here and you may want to look at the our coordination page for limitations on placing certain works on the separate language projects.

Most questions and discussions about the community are in the Scriptorium.

The Community Portal lists tasks you can help with if you wish. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me on my talk page!

Please help translate to your language

Zyephyrus 06:33, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

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Irish texts

Thanks for helping out with Irish texts here! Since we don't really have a way of displaying Gaelic type here (unlike English Wikisource, which has s:en:Template:Insular), I feel like it's preferable to convert the ponc séimhithe to h everywhere. Seeing the ponc in a modern typeface is just distracting, at least in my opinion. At any rate, please use the h if you want to help out with texts that have already been started (like Na Cheithre Soisgéil) so that a single text is consistent, even if you choose to use the ponc consistently in new texts. Thanks! —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 14:14, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

I copied over insular, it seems to work just fine here, though I haven't tried looking without being logged in, which could make a difference. I've only really been using it when a book has a gluais to add a visual distinction between the languages. I think I only did one page of Na Cheithre Soisgéil—I'd prepared an Irish Uncial package for tesseract-ocr and was testing it out on a page; something happened in the meantime, completely forgot I'd even touched it.

FWIW, I do have hopes of there being a dedicated Irish Wikisource, and I've made a start at adapting the modernisation gadget for Irish (step one is to convert the poncanna); if you'd like to give it a whirl, stick importScript('User:Jimregan/Scripts/LanguageConverter.js'); into your common.js -- Jimregan (talk) 19:51, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Ah, I see what I did now -- I had a source of proofread text, and uploaded it with git-mediawiki. -- Jimregan (talk) 20:18, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

For me, both logged in and logged out, {{insular}} doesn't actually show Insular letters here as it does over at en-wikisource. (For example, insular displays with a "normal" round s instead of the insular s.) I hope there isn't a dedicated Irish Wikisource, because I used to work at Welsh Wikisource, but the infrastructure there collapsed (page proofreading stopped working), and I don't know how to fix it, and no one else is active there so no one else cares. I did eventually file a bug report about it, and they managed to fix some of the problems, but it still doesn't work, so I still can't use the whole Index / Page / transclusion constellation there the way we do here and at en-wikisource. And if there were a separate ga-wikisource, I worry something like that would happen there too. So I'm happy to keep Irish here, where there are people working to keep the infrastructure up and running properly. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 09:34, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Hmm... do you have fonts enabled in the language settings? (Language selector->Display settings->Display->Fonts) There shouldn't be any difference between here and en, because the extension is here, and the set of fonts is global.

It's unfortunate about the Welsh Wikisource, but I don't think I'd notice a difference. The one major thing I messed up and didn't have the userlevel to fix myself happened at a time when there was no admin activity no matter how far back I scrolled through recent changes. Now seems like a good time, if I can find which one it was.

As much as I'm interested in old books, they're really not accessible to modern readers. The modernisation gadget is quite nice:

...but even asking people to add a line of javascript to a user script is a bit too much to ask—I know, because I've tried. -- Jimregan (talk) 19:00, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

I've enabled fonts in language settings, and now it works. But I still prefer to use normal "antiqua" for whole texts written in Irish, though using {{insular}} for individual Irish words in an English-language text seems like a good idea. Is the modernization gadget available for everyone, or are you the only one who can use it? —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 09:11, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Anyone can use it, as long as they add the script pieces to enable it: add

importScript('User:Jimregan/Scripts/LanguageConverter.js');

to Special:MyPage/common.js and it'll work. It's a dictionary based replacement; and I've opted for a choice between 'modernised' and 'standardised' versions, so there's a common dictionary with shared items, and separate modern and standard dictionaries. Each individual page can override those using {{foclóirín}}, for page specific items. There are some niggles: uppercase and title case can be treated automatically, as long as the entry is in lowercase; specific casings need to be added individually, so things like 'T-AON' to 'tAON' and 't-Aon' to 'tAon' have to have individual entries; the replacements are sensitive to formatting, etc., so even the numbers of the transcluded pages can prevent the replacement from happening. There is a facility for marking pieces of text to be left untouched, but I haven't gotten around to adding it yet. I was thinking as a first step to make a copy of {{lang}} called 'teanga' and leave such items untouched as a first step. Because of this problem with transclusion, I've made a version of {{SIC}} that behaves as normal in the page namespace, but just inserts an unmarked correction otherwise. It's not ideal, and it's probably better to work around it with {{foclóirín}}, but that's a matter for discussion if/when others start to use it.

Finally, what constitutes 'modernised' is definitely a matter for discussion. For the time being, because my text needs are driven by a speech recognition project, 'modernised' is 'how a modern native speaker of that dialect read it', so, e.g., what little is done so far with An Mháthair agus Sgéalta Eile is much closer to the standard than, say, Séadna—whether or not Connacht speakers at the time used things like synthetic verb forms or not, they certainly don't now, while Munster speakers do. As long as I can get a version that matches the audio I have, I'll be linking to that specific revision in any event, so once that's done, I'm happy to leave it to consensus.

That was a lot more than I'd originally thought I'd have written, sorry about that! -- Jimregan (talk) 11:20, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Forgot to add: whether or not changes are marked (blue for standard, green for modern), the original text is included in a mouseover. -- Jimregan (talk) 11:42, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

That's an incredibly cool gadget! I notice, however, it doesn't recognize dative plurals in -(a)ibh and standardize them to nominative plurals. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 13:08, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Anything that changes is deliberate: aside from changing buailte letters to h, and changing 'i n-' to 'in ', everything happens based on a dictionary (in this case, the {{foclóirín}} template in the page).

The dative plurals specifically are a temporary thing: when I'm done with the text for speech recognition, I'll just move them from the shared section of the {{foclóirín}} to the standard section. In the meantime, using the nominative where there's no spoken difference causes me less work. I'll have to be done with it some time in the next week or so, because I want to keep a clear separation between what was done as a hobby and what was done once I start work (I think Abair have used modern editions of at least some of these books, so I'd like to keep a clear separation). -- Jimregan (talk) 15:27, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

redirects

Are redirects like this one needed? Ankry (talk) 05:44, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

No. I was uploading a bunch of already proofread text with git-mediawiki and screwed up before I noticed it, didn't know who to ask, and forgot about it. I made a similar error with another book, I'm trying to remember which -- Jimregan (talk) 11:50, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Do you mean Index:Cirtmheadhonoi00merr.djvu and Index:Cúirt an Ṁeaḋon Oiḋċe (1910).djvu? Should one of them be deleted? (Unsure as I see different book title in index page...) Ankry (talk) 14:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Ah feck. Yeah, that too: Index:Cirtmheadhonoi00merr.djvu (and the file File:Cirtmheadhonoi00merr.djvu) are duplicates. The one I had in mind was Index:Rubáiiát Omár Caiiám ó Naíseápúr - Ó Donnchadha.djvu, where I forgot the 'Page:' prefix, so there's Rubáiiát Omár Caiiám ó Naíseápúr - Ó Donnchadha.djvu/8 to Rubáiiát Omár Caiiám ó Naíseápúr - Ó Donnchadha.djvu/39, plus the corresponding pages don't work properly after the move, so they either need their namespace changed, or to be deleted and redone. Thanks for deleting the redirects from An t-Ogha Mor! -- Jimregan (talk) 11:05, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh! I see now that you fixed the content model. Double thanks! -- Jimregan (talk) 11:36, 3 July 2018 (UTC)